Behind the Behaviors: What My Son's Treatment Taught Me About Myself
In this episode, host Tiffany continues her conversation with Michael, a parent sharing his journey navigating residential treatment for his neurodivergent son. Michael discusses the emotional impact of drop-off, key turning points in his son's progress through structure and horsemanship, and how parent involvement and self-reflection are critical to whole-family healing.
Even in the hardest moments, real family healing happens when parents are willing to take the treatment journey alongside their child. If you are ready for guidance, reach out to us today at 855-662-9318.
First Introductions at Discovery Ranch
Tiffany: Welcome back to our listeners. In our previous episode with Michael, we talked about what his journey was like with his son leading up to coming to a residential treatment center and having to go through many different options. In this episode, we're going to be talking about what it's like to be in a residential treatment center, and what his healing journey was like, especially at Discovery Ranch. So thank you so much for joining us again.
Michael: Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure.
Tiffany: Yeah. So we started to go down that road in our last episode of showing up at Discovery Ranch. Let's pick up from there. You mentioned that he met with Chris Brown. At this point-
Michael: That was in April of the year that he actually came, because we did a visit first.
Tiffany: Yeah, you did a visit first.
Michael: I wanted to bring him out here to see it because he was still resistant to wanting to go to a program. I wanted him to make an informed "no". If his decision was "no", I was like, "Fine. But we're going to go out there, and I want you to just see it." What Discovery Ranch offers is very attractive to me as a parent. If I could create a lifestyle for my son that he otherwise would never experience, I think Discovery Ranch has done a great job of putting that together. But we got out here and visited, and he said, "No." Fast-forward to December of that year, and all the circumstances said you really have no other choice. So he finally said, "Yeah." He bought into it enough.
Researching Options & the Decision to Enter Treatment
Tiffany: Well, so what was it like for you, having been through this really long journey, to drop him off at Discovery Ranch and head home? Was that hard? Was that easy?
Michael: I'll come to that.
Tiffany: Okay. Yeah.
Michael: A couple things I'd like to say as a parent leading up to that. I did share that, practically speaking, no other program was willing to accept my son because of his history with aggression. Taking that off the table, if that were not really in the mix- which it was- to be truthful, it still was my choice. My experience with Greg McGary and the team, not just in person but over the phone, talking about the program and the process from an administrative and practical perspective, gave me the opportunity to talk to other parents. I also spoke to one other educational consultant just as a backup to the educational consultant we were working with at the time, who was really wonderful. So, figuring out the financial aspect of it...
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Michael: Interfacing with... I hadn't spoken with Bre yet, but it wasn't just the clinical, lifestyle, day-to-day life, and support that my kid was going to get. It was all the things around it that a parent has to go through, think through, and feel through. I had already been to a couple of programs and spoken to many others, and the financial aspect, the clinical team, and the academic team- even without experiencing it yet- were very appealing to me.
Tiffany: I'd love to touch on real quick, before you move ahead, how you really did your research. I know that some parents don't always have the luxury and the time to do that. Sometimes they're in such crisis that it's like we've gotta make decisions and act fast. But if you do have the ability...
Michael: It's a good choice. It's still a good choice.
Tiffany: Yeah. Oh, it still is a good choice.
Michael: Yeah.
Tiffany: Yeah, but being able to visit a program, meet with the team, and have that third-party validation, right? Saying, "Yes, we know this program," and looking at all the different aspects, you really did your homework even during such a difficult time. I think that's so important for parents to hear, the steps you can take if you have the ability.
Michael: And to your point, I made the time. I had to.
Tiffany: Oh, I love that.
Michael: I made the time. This wasn't like we were going out to buy a pair of shoes. We were making a decision to fly our son three-quarters of the way across the United States and put him into the hands of strangers. Albeit strangers that come with a reputation. These aren't people that we've known, it's not family, and it's not friends.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: Not that family and friends are necessarily any help.
Tiffany: Sometimes they're no help at all.
Michael: A lot of times, I should say.
Tiffany: So we were talking about having to make that choice leading up to Discovery Ranch, him buying in and saying, "Okay, this is really my only option."
Michael: Yeah, it was the only option, but again, taking that off the table, it still would have been the choice of the ones available that were even potentials.
Tiffany: Yes.
Michael: Just on paper, and through my experience with the individuals that I interfaced with, like Greg McGary.
Tiffany: Yes, who is the admissions director.
Michael: Yeah, he's the guy who is holding the hands of parents making the decision for Discovery Ranch, and helping the parents decide whether this is the right program for them and if it's a good fit. And as it turns out, it was a really good fit for our son.
Understanding Neurodivergence While Navigating Parent-Child Conflicts
Michael: Discovery Ranch has a subspecialty in what they do and the kinds of kids that they deal with who are neurodivergent. At that time, that had moved to the forefront of why our son was behaving the way he was. Now, in hindsight, that diagnosis triggered me to take on a new passion. Because I'm a sponge, I started to read and dive into understanding what that meant. I really began to have a more functional understanding of why my son was the way he was. He's not a bad kid. This is what happens with neurodivergent kids; this is how they experience life. When they sit in defense mode- you know, the emotional funnel- and they get down into defense mode, it is very difficult to get them out and help them regulate. Anyway, I may be going off on a tangent.
Tiffany: No, you're not, actually. I think this is a good point for our listeners, because when you have a child who is neurodivergent and on the spectrum...
Michael: It's a very specialized approach to help kids like that. It's not a typical approach. I can say this because one of the programs that my son went to was quoted as being specialized in it, and they weren't. They had one therapist. In my opinion, Discovery Ranch is more of an expert on it, particularly under the umbrella of Chris Brown and Chris Wilson, who help with the neurodivergent clinical piece. The success happened. We had success.
Tiffany: It's so unique. If you are a parent listening who has a child on the spectrum who is neurodivergent and has behavioral issues in regards to aggression, it can feel so alone, isolating, challenging, shameful, and embarrassing. You wonder, "How do we handle that?"
Michael: Part of the problem is that kids who are neurodivergent go into defense mode. Their fight-or-flight nervous system is activated. From their perspective, they're sitting in front of a lion and are about to get eaten, or a bus is about to run them over. That's what's going on inside of them. That blew my mind. I thought, "Are you kidding me?" But no, that's what was going on in my son.
Tiffany: They see red all the time.
Michael: That's why it was impossible for you as a parent sometimes. It's not just because of where he was, but because there's an inherent parent-child conflict. Every parent and child has a conflict to varying degrees; it's inherent in the relationship. Taking that piece, coupled with a neurodivergent kid who gets into defense mode, along with my son's passion and will of, "I'm gonna win," it was impossible to get this kid to step out of it. How I, as a parent, didn't revert to beating him befuddles me, especially because I was beaten as a child. You can't imagine how frustrating it is with a kid like this. They won't get in the car. They won't put their pants on. All they want is a snack. This kid could argue in circles for 20 minutes for a bag of trail mix and win. Show me a parent who could do that day after day and not give in.
Tiffany: Yeah. And not to mention another layer: we live in a world that's not structured for kids whose brains are wired this way.
Michael: Not at all. We're the exception. I say "we" because I know I am, too, through what I learned from my son and his experience.
Tiffany: So if you're a parent listening and thinking, "Oh, my gosh, that's my kid," you can resonate with that. To realize, "Oh, no program is gonna take my child because of these issues," that's a really scary, vulnerable place to be. To find a place like Discovery Ranch and realize not only are they truly equipped for it, but they're going to take my child and they have things in place to keep them safe.
Michael: And safe when they go into crisis. They get them stable and then bring them back to the program. So a smart kid like my son, who knows if he acts up enough he'll get kicked out and come home, learns that ain't gonna happen. That's off the table.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Emotional Aftermath of Treatment Drop-off
Michael: And that was really key for my son. Very key. So yeah, in December of 2022, we hopped on a plane and flew out here. We packed him up and flew out.
Tiffany: And what was it like going home without him?
Michael: I think I was numb.
Tiffany: That's fair.
Michael: I was. I was a little dissociated. I know myself because on my own healing journey, I've realized I am an extraordinarily high-functioning, dissociated person, or at least I had been.
Tiffany: Considering your history...
Michael: Because I would become overwhelmed and I would just leave my body, but I learned how to function and just get stuff done. I would just push it down and get it done. So that's where I was with him. Thank goodness he stayed regulated on the flight, because I had been in situations here before with him where we would be driving to where we were going, and things would start to escalate. I've had to pull off the road because he was beating the dashboard or threatening to rip the seat. But he stayed regulated, we got on the plane, and we got him out here.
I remember dropping him off. We had a big bag of stuff, and they dumped it out and started sorting through it. You probably know this as a clinician, and I know Chris Brown does too, but we don't form memories very well when we're dysregulated and in fight-or-flight. I know that because my memory of that day is not super clear. But I'll come back to answer your question, particularly regarding how I felt after I would visit him later on.
I actually had a friend come with me just to be there. So it was me, my friend, and my son. We dropped him off, and then we flew home. As a parent, I'm sure others who have gone through this and are listening can relate- there's this indescribable exhale and sigh of relief, woven in with, "What did I just do?" There's relief because you just want the crisis to end. Then the flip side of that is knowing your son is now in Utah, and he's not coming home for a while.
Tiffany: Definitely mixed emotions with guilt, shame, and relief. Maybe even feeling guilty that you feel relief, right? And you don't have your child.
Michael: Yeah. I don't think I felt guilty about feeling relief. I had been through enough at that point where I just wanted it to end. I needed a break, especially after what had happened leading up to Discovery Ranch. Having to call 911, have the cops come, and watch your son get wrestled to the ground and taken off in handcuffs- it was a welcome relief. I don't apologize for it. I needed it.
Tiffany: I don't think you should. That's heart-wrenching.
Michael: You can't imagine. But he was there. Both his mom and I had arrived at a place where we were just going to trust that it was the right place for him. Amidst all that chaos in me, some part of me felt like this was just the right thing. All other circumstances aside, it felt right to me.
Tiffany: Really trusting that process.
Family Therapy, Communication and Accountability in Treatment
Michael: Yeah. Yeah, and of course, we started the journey of beginning to have weekly family therapy and reports. We had access to Chris on his cellphone via text if we needed to speak to him or if he needed to speak to us. It was open and regular, not just scheduled.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: The family therapy was scheduled once a week. We're going to get on a call; we're going to video call with our son. Chris would bring our son in, and-
Tiffany: So you got to see him once a week.
Michael: Mom and I would be there, and we got to see him. It was the same story with his routines.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: He would get on and ask, "When am I coming home? When do I get out of here? How long am I going to be here?" It was classic. Forgive me if I get the order off, but we actually spent time with Chris Brown, the therapist, first. Chris was on with us for a while before our son joined. He would prep us and coach us, and we'd talk about our grown-up parent stuff, and then our son would come on. So he helped prepare us for what was going to happen, though we had been there before with our son.
Tiffany: It wasn't your first rodeo.
Michael: Yee-haw.
Tiffany: Were there times where he did try to get kicked out of the program?
Michael: Yes.
Tiffany: Or...
Michael: Oh, yeah. I'm not privy to the data directly, but indirectly, the leadership of one of the other programs my son went to subsequent to Discovery Ranch came down to see him. They got the full four-one-one on my son, and they indicated that our son had more documented restraints and issues than any other kid in the history of Discovery Ranch. I don't know that for a fact, but I don't doubt it.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah, my son set a few records on both sides of the spectrum, and we'll get to the more positive stuff as we travel down the road.
Tiffany: Absolutely.
Michael: Because there is a happy ending to this story. So it was as expected. Coming back to the transparency of information-
Tiffany: Yes, please.
Michael: Anything we wanted to know, we could find out. There's an agreement between Discovery Ranch and the parents that certain issues that come up are mandated to be reported to the parents. So yeah, it was around the end of January when he started to act up. He damaged a couch, and we got the call.
Tiffany: Okay.
Michael: "Your son damaged the couch." And of course, my first thought was, "Now I've gotta pay for another couch." And they're like, "No." I was like, "What do you mean?" And they said, "No, that's not how we handle it here. The parents don't take care of it for the kids." I asked what happens, and they said, "He will be required to work restitution and pay for the repair himself." I was like, "Shut up." That's what they did to my son.
Tiffany: That's... yeah. I don't know if I knew that detail. That's awesome.
Michael: I remember the moment. I thought, "That's what his mom and I couldn't get him to do." The other programs didn't even try.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: And I'll be damned, he did it.
Tiffany: That's so cool.
Michael: He worked off whatever it cost to fix that couch. I remember asking him about the things he was doing, like feeding the calves. I think the layers of impact that come from the requirement for the boys to adopt a calf and take care of it provide layers of positive support that I can't imagine they're going to get anywhere else. These kids are coming out of family systems where they've been in crisis.
But they are required to take care of those calves. They have to get up at 6:00, and they have to feed this calf at 6:00, 12:00, and in the evening, whether it's raining, snowing, or a-
Tiffany: Blizzard.
Michael: I don't know the specific details of how they do that, particularly with my son, who is defiant and very hard to get going in any direction. But Chris Brown and the team somehow managed it, and he did it every day. Then he began to interface with the other boys. If another boy had to do something at noon, my son would cover for that kid. He'd say, "Hey, I can't feed my calf at noon because I've gotta go do this. Can you cover for me?" He would do that, and he learned to take responsibility and outsource the help when he couldn't do it himself.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: That's a huge aspect of the program. He also began to notice that the boys in the neurodivergent group can be very noisy, loud, and disruptive. When they moved from a regulated state to an intensely dysregulated space, my son actually began to help coach, hold space, and help these kids move back to a more regulated space as he progressed through the program.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Turning Points in Treatment Progress
Michael: The real turning point was probably around February or March of 2023. His mom thinks it was around the couch incident. We were out here for parents' weekend in February, and it was shortly after that. That's when he was really "turning," I guess you could say.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: The restraints, the outbursts, and the defiance were beginning to fall off. The psychiatrist at Discovery Ranch had suggested adding a low dosage of an additional medication, which was going to help give him that extra time to process things rather than going from zero to 100 in defense mode.
Tiffany: To slow it down.
Michael: Right.
Tiffany: So he could make that choice to say, "Wait."
Michael: Right. And see, this is the magic of residential treatment centers, because these kids are in an environment where they are living life, but there is no family dynamic.
Tiffany: Right, there is a dynamic, but it is not right in their face.
Michael: It's not the same as a family of origin. It's different. I'm not an expert, but I'll argue that to the death.
Tiffany: No, I agree.
Michael: There is a family dynamic because we fall into those patterns, but it's not the family-of-origin dynamic. They are in life situations, experiencing things similarly but differently, and having new experiences. They're taking care of the calf, doing horsemanship, and handling academics. Stuff comes up, but the difference is they've got these staff members around them all the time who can help them stop, take a break, process through the feelings and emotions, and unpack what just happened so they can learn. That's what happens at RTCs. That's the magic. And at Discovery Ranch, the frontline staff, in my opinion, are a different breed compared to all the other programs I've seen. They're just different people. A lot of the success of a program rests on the frontline staff.
Tiffany: Oh, absolutely.
Michael: And they're really good with kids.
Tiffany: Having been a frontline staff member and having been in those trenches...
Michael: It makes all the difference.
Tiffany: Yeah, you're the one there day in and day out. The other thing to add to that magic and success is that the staff members aren't like a parent who is on 24/7. They get to take their breaks, they can tap out, and they have built-in support.
Michael: I'm sorry to say, but my tap out was…[pantomimes drinking]. Ugh…
Tiffany: Yeah, exactly.
Michael: It was.
Tiffany: Yeah. The staff has that ability to tag team, plus they have training from the therapists. I remember being a staff member at programs and knowing how to use those interventions, being able to see, "Okay, this kid's trigger point is this. This is how to intervene." I could see when a kid was dysregulated and knew when to pull them out because I had that skill set and training. I know Chris is incredible with his staff; he trains them weekly.
Michael: If you ever want me to do a commercial for Chris Brown, I'm your guy. And that comes from a place of great love.
Tiffany: And it's an unpaid endorsement!
Michael: I'm being a little funny, but he's a magician. His value to that program is invaluable.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: So Clint, or Matt Childs, if you're watching this...
Tiffany: An endorsement for Chris!
Michael: And he knows this.
Tiffany: We've actually had him on the podcast before, talking about how he works with the boys.
Michael: I know, I've seen him. The way his mind works really resonates with mine because I get it instantly with him. He has a way of talking about it, and he's an expert with kids who are neurodivergent. He just gets them. He's a whisperer. He really is.
Tiffany: He really is. I've worked with those kids specifically, and I've been to lots of trainings, but in my time being a therapist, I've never heard someone articulate it as well as Chris.
Michael: Yeah, he helped us a lot as parents, too, because he comes from a place of understanding and perspective for people who don't necessarily speak that language or have a working understanding of what goes on inside a neurodivergent kid. He helped us as parents right where we were. Discovery Ranch structures parent weekends and videos specifically for the parents to come out, go through workshops, and we did that every time.
Tiffany: Let's talk about your healing journey, because when you bring your child to treatment...
Michael: I don't think we have enough time for that!
Tiffany: I know, but we've just got to touch on it a little bit.
Michael: Yeah.
The Parent's Healing Journey
Tiffany: What did you do to start healing for yourself? Because it's not just, "I'm gonna drop my kid off at a residential treatment center and fix him." It's, "Now I gotta start looking in the mirror and looking at what I need to change and how I can heal."
Michael: My question became, "Okay, so why is my son in my life?" There are no mistakes. What is he showing me that I need to take a look at? For me personally, I have very little recollection of my childhood. It was a very difficult, physically and emotionally abused history.
Tiffany: I'm so sorry.
Michael: Yeah. My dad was a "rageaholic" alcoholic, and my mom was a classic codependent. She was a great woman, but it was like we had this public life, and then the private life at home.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: No one- I can't imagine anyone really knew what happened in our household. So, with my son, I think that we come into each other's lives for reasons and purposes that go beyond our conscious awareness. There are no mistakes there; there just isn't. So why is my boy here? He was here to show me what I was like as a kid because I was smart, scared, and defensive. I started looking at him and finding myself in him. Every time I looked, it was there. It helped me to understand and appreciate him more, and it also gave me an opportunity to look back on my own upbringing. The experiences I had as a kid were still inside of me, and they were coming up in my relationship with him.
Tiffany: Those wounded parts of ourselves...
Michael: Yeah, that's why I was getting pissed with him.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: Or why I would be afraid and anxious to have a conversation with this kid. It was about reparenting myself, not to use a clinical platitude, but I don't mean it that way. That is literally what I was doing. He was there to help show me aspects of myself that I hadn't yet looked at. I spent a lot of time in therapy. A good decade of my life during the '90s was really about this- meaning me and my journey, understanding myself, and how I became who I was. My son came into my world because he chose me and I chose him, because he was taking me to the next level. It was a really hard and difficult one, but it was poignant. He was a real mirror for me.
Tiffany: Again, you're touching on this humility piece that I just love for our listeners to hear because it's so hard to get to that place.
Michael: Who grows up in a family where your mom or dad, or even a friend, a priest, or somebody says to you, "People are in your life because they're reflecting you back to you"?
Tiffany: Well, and the things that bug and piss you off the most, the things that trigger you, are probably what you need to work on.
Michael: No, not probably.
Tiffany: No, you're right. You're right.
Michael: If I'm pointing a finger, how many fingers are pointing back at me? I learned that in the 12-Step program, and I never forgot it. It blows people away when I say this to them if they are not in the clinical world, but it is not, "I'm pissed off because he cut me off." No, I'm pissed off because that person is showing me something inside of myself that I'm not willing to look at. The only way for me to feel okay about myself is to make it about them. No, it's about me, and I take that to heart.
He was taking me to a place inside of myself on my journey of self-awareness and getting to know myself that I hadn't been ready for, but now I was. I began to see how I was rescuing him. I was addicted. That was my addiction; I'm a rescue addict. I don't mean that flippantly; I mean that literally.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: As a former addictions counselor, my definition of an addiction is a behavior or an impulse that we move towards. In moving towards it to get whatever we think we're gonna get- whether it's sex, drugs, booze, shopping, or work- we embrace that impulse and act it out. In that action, we forget about everything. We forget about everyone we love, every agreement we have, and everything that's really important to us. It all goes away. That's my definition of addiction, and that's what was going on for me. I didn't want to look at how painful it was for me to go back to another level inside of myself around what was still there based on my upbringing.
Tiffany: You hit the nail on the head. It's that impulse that helps you cope with those really uncomfortable emotions.
Michael: I want to get it out of me, I want to get it away from me.
Tiffany: Quick, quick, quick- the path of least resistance.
Michael: "I'm gonna fix you so I don't have to feel."
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: That's it.
Tiffany: I love this because when I ask parents this question, our typical answers are, "I went to therapy. I did self-care. I reached out for support." But you took it to a whole other level that I don't know if many parents have really reached, which is, "I had to look at my child and realize what things were reflected back to me that I needed to work on." That's huge. If I could get every parent I worked with to look in the mirror, look at their child, and realize what work they needed to do themselves, then I knew there was 100% hope for that family to heal and move forward into a bright future.
Michael: Oh, absolutely. I agree. There has to be a willingness, however slight. A Course in Miracles, which is an incredible work that has been one of the foundation cornerstones of my journey in life, says that willingness, however slight, constitutes a miracle. There is no order of miracles. It's important to know it only takes a little bit. You don't have to crack yourself completely open all at once.
Tiffany: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Michael: And sincerely and authentically give up. It just takes a little willingness, and with that little willingness, I believe- and I've seen this as the evidence in my life- whatever the mystery is that runs life that we don't see and pay attention to, moves in with a solution and an answer. But it takes the willingness.
Tiffany: Yeah, that humility.
Michael: For whatever reason, whoever I am and why I'm here, that's the drum that I've been beating. Work is not... my life is my work. That's why I'm here, asking the question: why is my son here in my life?
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: He's not here just to go through life. A life unexamined is not worth living. I'm sorry, it's just not.
Tiffany: Oh, absolutely.
Michael: It's just not. If you're not looking at your life and looking at yourself, you're not going to be looking at this podcast. You're just not.
Tiffany: Yeah. Well, this leads me to my next thought: you had to get comfortable with being uncomfortable with yourself. Did that help you be okay with your son being uncomfortable? Because when we go back to look at the motto of Discovery Ranch, it is, "There's strength in the struggle." That means you have to be comfortable with your son being in that struggle.
Michael: My challenge at the time- and that was the turning point for me- was that I was so unaware of how uncomfortable I was. I normalized what it was like to be me, and I was a very high-functioning coper. I used alcohol. I didn't use drugs, but I loved to party, and that was one of my coping mechanisms. As he became the mirror showing me myself, I had to ask: if that's true, why am I so uncomfortable? Why does he scare me? I was afraid of him, among a couple of other things. What was that all about?
That led me to realize I was running. I identified that when I came home from work- and I was in a very high-stress profession that I chose and loved- too much of a great thing became overwhelming. I would come home overwhelmed, and I just wanted to get away from him. I couldn't be around him.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: It was hard. I wondered, "What is that? Why do I feel this way?" That began this path and this journey of seeing how uncomfortable I was with myself and what was behind that. To answer your question, did that play a part in changing my relationship with my son? It saved it.
Until and unless I was willing to explore myself and find a path to reconciling or healing what was going on inside of me, my relationship with my son wouldn't progress. It wouldn't go anywhere. He was doing the work, I did it, and his mom did it, too. I want to offer her credit, too.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: She doesn't approach it exactly like I do, and that's okay. No one is supposed to be just like me. I'm me. But seeing her and how her relationship with him has changed, I see the changes in her, too. That was the kernel. That is the foundation of the beginning of the healing journey.
Tiffany: Yeah. Well, I love this. This is just such a unique aspect of the journey of having your child at a residential treatment center. It isn't just talking about the program, how many times you did therapy, and things like that. It's asking, "Am I willing to change myself and create a different family system? Am I willing to create a different dynamic between my child and me, or their mom and me, to allow real growth and healing?"
Michael: A parent cannot get there right away on day one. You are just trying to hold things together with whatever is going on with your kid.
Tiffany: Absolutely.
Michael: But once a parent starts to question things, their inherent curiosity comes out: "Why is my kid like this?" That will begin it. There has to be a curiosity. It has been said for eons that a life unexamined is not really a life worth living. We have to be curious. You ask that question, and I subscribe to the belief that the answers will begin to show up.
Tiffany: Yeah, I agree.
Michael: And so I did, and I take that to heart.
Tiffany: Well, and I think you can't get to that place until you get your child in a place where they feel safe.
Michael: Yeah, and sometimes life wants to hit you over the head with a two-by-four. That was me.
Tiffany: Yeah. When you are in crisis, when you are in fight, flight, or freeze yourself and dysregulated, it is going to be hard to even remotely get there. So getting your child to a place where you feel like they are safe, settled, and stabilized allows you to take that step back and start that healing process yourself.
Creating a Safe Environment for Growth
Michael: Right. Exactly. Yeah, and that's what the family therapy is there for.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: It's there for the parents, and you now have the time and the space. You're not in a constant, consistent crisis.
Tiffany: Crisis, yep.
Michael: And that's where it begins.
Tiffany: When was your son's turning point?
Michael: It was around March.
Tiffany: And what did that look like?
Michael: I wish I was here to see it, but I didn't have that privilege. It's funny, I remember his mom and I are really good co-parents, I have to say.
Tiffany: I can tell.
Michael: I gotta tell you.
Tiffany: I have so much admiration and respect...
Michael: Our split up was painful, and we talked about this when we first got together. We just didn't belong together. But now that we're apart, we're so much better than we were as a married couple and as a unit. It had run its course, and it was time for us to be separate, but we're really good together this way. The reports were coming, and they began to show that there were fewer and fewer restraints. He was starting to buy into this restitution for hitting the couch, and it was... let me finish this, because it was like, "Oh, wow." But four years of trauma were always right there, where we both even said this to each other: "Oh..." It was wonderful, don't get me wrong. It was celebratory, but we both lived our lives waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Tiffany: Yeah, it's that...
Michael: When's it gonna happen?
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: Because we've been here before. It was this pattern.
Tiffany: There's a term for this from Brené Brown. I'll have to look it up.
Michael: Ooh.
Tiffany: She's a good one. I like her.
Tiffany: She is good. It's like when you're experiencing so much joy, you feel so much vulnerability. It's like, "Well, yeah, when is the shoe gonna drop? I can't be in this happiness forever. I know something bad's gonna come."
Michael: And history had proven that with our son, because that was his pattern.
Tiffany: Yeah, absolutely.
Michael: But we were happy, and he seemed to be having some enjoyment in his life. We wanted him to be happy, but he had just been miserable wherever he went, and now he was beginning to have some joy. He was really buying into the horsemanship program. Dan is another whisperer. Dan is in charge of the horsemanship program; he's actually a horse whisperer.
Tiffany: Oh.
Michael: I searched him up, and he has a history and a legacy. Our son was also beginning to flourish academically. He was getting all caught up and then moving ahead. There were just no incidents happening. He was beginning to live a life more consistently regulated than dysregulated like he had been.
Tiffany: Okay. I'm just now piecing this together. This is good. Your son went from having to have everyone control him, right?
Michael: Yep.
Tiffany: He couldn't control himself, so there had to be this external control. It really sounds like the switch happened when that pressure was put on him, and not saying that you guys couldn't, but it sounds like...
Michael: Oh, we couldn't. Don't worry, I'm not offended.
Tiffany: He made everyone have to control him because he couldn't do it himself. So once he started to face that pressure to take ownership of the couch, of the calf, of that empowerment...
Michael: Yeah.
Tiffany: Right? To say, "No, you can do this," and it's not just your parents who are gonna put that pressure, but this whole team...
Michael: Right, and it was consistent.
Tiffany: Consistent. That is key, especially for a kid on the spectrum.
Michael: It was consistent from staff to staff. There was a consistent approach. It wasn't like Joe handled it this way, Suzy handled it that way, and Cindy did it a different way. There was consistency, and it was constant and persistent.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: And with that, coupled with a little medication tweak, and I think it was just the right time in his life, all the ingredients came together. It was the perfect secret sauce for him to begin to taste what it was like and have an experience of what it felt like to be happy.
Tiffany: Success.
Michael: And just enjoy it.
Tiffany: That's empowerment.
Michael: Go have fun with your calf and the other guys.
Tiffany: And the confidence that brings.
Michael: From an academic perspective, he had lost his... I believe, and I think you can back me up as a clinician, we all inherently as human beings have a natural curiosity and a desire to learn, but his was gone. It was lost in the chaos.
Tiffany: Oh, yeah.
Michael: He found it again. He started connecting. He had been behind, and then all his academics were caught up, and then he started going ahead and getting straight As.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: So he found his curiosity and desire to learn as well.
Tiffany: The program I worked at found the same thing. Once kids started doing well clinically and making progress with their mental health, the academic piece started falling in line with that. That was super consistent with the research and the data we collected with the boys we worked with as well.
Michael: He had been disinterested. He's a smart kid, he's gifted that way, but he was just disinterested. The chaos of what was going on and how he experienced life just quashed it.
Tiffany: Well, and one other thing I wanna circle back to for our parents listening... and if you have a child who's on the spectrum, you're gonna know this... but for a child who is on the spectrum and neurodivergent, that consistency is so key, and it being constant and persistent, which was the word you used.
Michael: Yeah.
Tiffany: Because a child who isn't neurodivergent may only need to touch a hot stove once or twice to realize, "I don't need to touch that stove again," right?
Michael: Neurodivergent kids need more.
Tiffany: Fifty to 100 times. 1,000 times. Yeah.
Michael: And it's gotta be the same between Joe and Susie from day to day or week to week.
Tiffany: Yeah. And we've talked about this on previous podcasts, but when you meet one neurodivergent kid, you've only met one neurodivergent kid.
Michael: They're all different, yes.
Tiffany: They're all so vastly different. And so that consistency, that persistence, and that teamwork is so huge to finally get that change. One thing I've seen as a clinician working with kids on the spectrum is once they get it, man, they get it. It becomes really black and white and they run with it, but it takes that hard work, effort, and endurance to finally get there.
Michael: That describes it very well. Things were very black and white with him.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: To neurodivergent kids, gray is Greek to them. It just is. Being in this kind of environment with someone like Chris Brown, who so intimately understands how individual kids experience neurodivergency, allows him to work with them to help understand the gray, because there is no single fix that works for everyone. You said it before, they're all different. He did a fabulous job, and our son started turning around, and it became consistent. He was moving up in levels, getting his privileges, and earning more and more freedoms.
Tiffany: Was it all linear, or was it two steps forward, one step back?
Michael: That's what's interesting. His was pretty linear.
Tiffany: Was it?
Michael: Yeah.
Tiffany: He was ready. It sounds like he was primed at that point then?
Michael: You know what? For what he had been through, he should have been. He had been through enough difficulty that he was primed.
Tiffany: Not only him, but his parents as well, to say the least.
Michael: Yeah.
Tiffany: Is there anything else you really wanna touch on before we wrap this up regarding your experience at Discovery Ranch, the program, or anything else?
Michael: A parent asked me this, and yeah, I wanna say it. I have been asked to be available as a parent of a graduate for people who are considering sending their child to Discovery Ranch, so I speak to parents once in a while.
Reflections on the DR Experience & the Importance of Parental Involvement
Michael: And parents, particularly the last one, he asked me, "So what did you not like about DR? Where did they fall short, or did they not meet your expectations?" And I, as ridiculous as this sounds, I can't come up with one. I really can't. It may be a byproduct of going in at a place where I don't wanna say my expectations were low, but I had abandoned expectations and was just kind of blankly hoping that he would make some progress. That aside, though... because what I wanna say is that I think the results have exceeded my expectations, and I just said I didn't really have any. I think I did quietly. But there is nothing that I had as an experience with DR that was negative. I know that sounds kind of sad and canned, but it's not. I really can't think of anything negative. Everything was part of a growth-oriented experience.
Even coming out here and doing the parents weekends. They have a structured program for the parents, and they take you through these workshops.
Tiffany: Yep.
Michael: And some of them were okay, where if I were a regular person, I might be like, "Yeah, it was kinda dumb." But it was okay. Most of them left me thinking, "Holy crap." You know, they did this one on values, and you're all given this bag of cards. You have to sort through all these values and pick the top 10 things that you value, and then you come together. It was so revelatory about what his values were. What did he value?
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: His mom, what did she value? And we as a group, although we weren't living together, we would come together for them as a family and work together as a unit, even though we didn't live together. It was really amazing. I learned a lot. I learned a lot about myself, too. But yeah, I find that really odd that I'm remiss to find anything that was a negative experience or a bad thing.
Tiffany: Well, I feel like you'd be the type of person who wouldn't hold back from sharing any of that if it had happened.
Michael: No, I'm pretty transparent.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: I call it like I see it. Yeah, and if that pissed me off, I'd say so, but no one ever pissed me off. I never even had to call Clint, the director. Never even got his number, and I always had the director's phone number at other places because something pissed me off, or something seemed like an inequity or something going on.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: And I was not shy. I've called directors and expressed myself responsibly, but clearly.
Tiffany: Yes. And your involvement is so key. I think for listeners to hear that if you're at the stage that you need to search for a residential treatment center, your involvement is 100% key. If not, don't even bother. Right?
Michael: Don't bother. Well, some parents might, but you need to manage your expectations because they're not gonna be long-lasting. And they're probably gonna be minimal, in my opinion.
Tiffany: And hopefully, at some point, you'll be willing to fully jump into the deep end once you do it. Yeah, it really is.
Michael: That is the difference maker from my perspective as a parent, and I think you echo that as a clinician too.
Tiffany: Oh, 100%. Is there anything you'd wanna leave our listeners with who may be in your place? Their kid is struggling, they're at their breaking point, and they're looking possibly at residential treatment centers...
Michael: If there's anything that I could do to help them, and you reach out to Tiffany, you're welcome to give them my contact information. I'm happy to talk to anybody about this. And I mean that.
Tiffany: Oh, I 100% believe that.
Michael: Yeah. I would rather talk to a parent who doesn't know what to do than go to work or make money. I mean that sincerely. It has just become more valuable to me. It's how I wanna spend my time, which is one of the reasons why you didn't have to ask me twice to come out and be part of this. I'm happy to.
Tiffany: Oh, man. It's such an honor, and so beautiful to hear you share such a part of your soul and your experience. Thank you for being willing to show up for parents, even just through this podcast, who may be really struggling, feeling discouraged, and at the rock bottom where you once were.
Michael: Yeah. Parents, question the voice that's talking to you about whether you... the voice that is saying, "This is not a good idea." Question where that voice is coming from. Take a look at that. I think that the work that this team does and other teams do is invaluable and is undervalued culturally and societally, unfortunately. But I think that tide is beginning to turn. And yeah, if my story helps anyone turn that corner inside of themselves, then that's a win for me.
Tiffany: I agree.
Looking Ahead: Life After Treatment
Michael: And I'm happy to help anybody, and I mean that sincerely.
Tiffany: Yeah. To end this episode, thank you so much for sharing what it was like while being in treatment. And to our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. In our next episode, we're gonna be talking with you, Michael, about what life has been like now that your son has been home. And...
Michael: That's the icing on the cake.
Tiffany: It is. And to our listeners, please tune in.
Michael: I have goosebumps. I can't wait to tell you this. It's just unbelievable. Anyway, so thank you.
Tiffany: I could talk to you for hours. I love it. Thank you so much for joining us.
Michael: My pleasure.