Without A Map: One Dad’s Reality of Navigating a Child in Crisis
Host Tiffany Silva-Herlin, LCSW, joins an alumni father, Michael, to discuss his journey navigating a late-childhood ASD diagnosis, financial hurdles, and the painful transition from enabling to true healing for his son at Discovery Ranch. This episode offers profound hope, validation, and practical wisdom for any parent facing a child in crisis.
If you are a parent currently feeling isolated or wondering if you have failed your child, this episode is a vital reminder that you are not alone. Michael's journey offers a validating look into the agony of letting go and the profound hope that waits on the other side of surrender. Listen & then call us today at 855-662-9318 to discover the tools it takes to guide your family toward real, lasting healing.
Introduction to the Healing Journey
Tiffany: Welcome to our podcast. I'm Tiffany Silva Herlin, a therapist dedicated to helping families heal. Today, we will be exploring the real story of a family who has walked the difficult but transformative path of residential treatment. In this miniseries, we sit down with a family who made the tough decision to send their child to residential treatment, and who want to share their story of healing and hope.
We'll explore the decision to seek residential treatment, the experience inside the program, and life after treatment. You'll hear honest reflections from this brave family as they share the highs and the lows of the healing process. Whether you're a parent considering residential treatment, a professional in the field, or someone looking for hope in the midst of struggle, this series will offer real insight, support, and inspiration.
Michael, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm excited to hear your story.
Michael: I feel privileged to be here, honestly, so I'm happy to be here. You guys are great.
Tiffany: And on my end, it's really an honor to be able to hold space for parents like you. We were talking just before this about how lonely it has to feel experiencing this journey. When you get to share your story, and then talk and connect with other parents and hear their stories, I assume that has to bring some hope and some peace to you.
Michael: Yeah. There's a lot right there. I spoke to my son and my son's mom about this, and we've talked about it a little bit as my son has moved into a better place and transitioned out of programs like Discovery Ranch and Ascent. One of my philosophies in life is to be of service and to give back.
If sharing a story that is really difficult at times can help one kid, or one mom, or one dad who is in the position that my son's mom and I found ourselves in - oh, God, it's eight or nine years ago now - then it's worth it. So yeah, I'm happy to be here and tell the story through my perspective.
Tiffany: I love that you are so willing, vulnerable, and genuine in how you show up. You were mentioning that you often talk to parents who are referred from these programs, as they are looking into them. What emotion does it bring up for you when you talk to those parents?
The Unpredictability of Parenthood
Michael: Not to throw out a platitude, but there's no playbook for parenthood and parenting.
Tiffany: Absolutely.
Michael: We move into that role with an idea of what it's gonna be like, and you don't know what you're gonna get - to quote you-know-who - "Life is like a box of chocolates."
Tiffany: Yes.
Michael: And kids are like that - you're not quite sure what you're gonna get. I can say from my perspective, I had no idea what to do. We were speaking about this just earlier, that the profound sense of helplessness is beyond words. Not knowing what to do, where to go, and looking at the perspective I had with what little I knew at that time. All I knew was that I had a young man who was consistently out of control.
It was hard. Now I have the privilege of hindsight, but back then, even though I'm not afraid to ask for help, I had no idea where to go. So I started with what I knew, and we found our way. Not to get too philosophical, but I absolutely subscribe to the idea that if you're willing, the universe and the world are gonna provide for you if you're open to it. But you have to be open.
As we were looking at my son and started to have him assessed, we moved past the immediacy of a psychiatrist, a psychologist, and outpatient counseling, and we hired an educational consultant. She, and then a few other people, opened the door to this world that you guys operate in - programs like Discovery Ranch, Ascent, Oxbow, and many others.
Tiffany: It's a big world that I don't think parents know exists unless you need it.
Michael: Exactly. I had no idea, and I'm a pretty experienced guy. I've been around the world and things like that. It was as if this door got kicked open. It's pitch black, you're absolutely terrified, yet someone you just met is asking you to trust them to step into this room. You step into the room, and then suddenly a light goes on. Over time, more lights go on, and it's extraordinary how many resources are actually available out there.
Tiffany: And I think it can also be so overwhelming when you do have to step through that door into the pitch-black and see all the options and resources, not knowing which one is good or which direction to go.
Michael: Yeah.
The Role of Educational Consultants
Tiffany: So, having someone like an educational consultant to guide you and ask you to trust them can be such a valuable resource to parents who are in crisis, in pain, in trauma, and not sure which direction to go for their child who is struggling, too.
Michael: I would actually upgrade your characterization to invaluable. We couldn't have done it without her. Maybe we could have, but she was invaluable, very helpful, and very empathetic, and that's what they're there for.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: Educational consultants fill a specific role. They're like any other profession - some are good, and some are bad. Some resonate with you, and some don't.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: You want to talk to a couple of them, look at their fee structure, how they work, and what their experience is. Are they experienced with the kind of kids who have the specific challenges your child is facing? And what are the programs they recommend?
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: Sorry if I'm digressing, just pull me back, but because I live in New Jersey, and she's in New Jersey, we have a relatively robust family mental health support structure here. However, in hindsight, I can see it was more about managing kids than healing them. But she began to talk about programs - really good programs, in her opinion - in Utah.
Tiffany: Where? What? Why?
Michael: I could feel my stomach coming up into my throat. And I know my son's mom, she was like, "No way. No way." She's Hungarian, so she has an accent, and she was saying, "No way." I was thinking, "Yeah, I can't..." Anyway, obviously we got over that, and eventually brought him out there.
Tiffany: I think that's a real concern and struggle for parents, looking outside of their state and having their child go across the country because the resources they have in-state aren't what their child needs. How do you overcome that fear of sending your child halfway across the United States to get help? Because that is so hard for parents.
Michael: There was a unique aspect to my son's situation that really forced our hand. Emotionally and psychologically, we were at the point where the pain of continuing down our current path with very little progress was worse than the alternative. In comparison, the pain and terror of putting your son on a plane, taking him out there, dropping him off with complete strangers, and leaving him in Utah - a couple thousand miles from New Jersey - became the better, less painful option.
But giving a little background on my son and that journey might help answer the question with more context.
Tiffany: Absolutely, and I want to go in that direction. Before we do, I just want to backtrack so our listeners who may be just tuning in know what we are talking about. I wanted to explain to them what an educational consultant actually is, if that's okay.
Michael: Oh, sure. Yeah.
Tiffany: And you are welcome to add to it since you've had experience. But it's someone whose career, goal, and whole focus is to learn about all these different programs, have relationships with them, visit them, and know the therapists and the staff. When a parent comes to them and says, "Here's my child and here's what they're struggling with," they can say, "Here are three programs I would highly recommend for you." Rather than you having to go on a website and do all this research, they take that burden off you. They're also there as support, a middleman, and someone to advocate for families to help you make the best decision on where your child needs to go.
Michael: Yeah, they're independent consultants. They don't work for anybody except themselves.
Tiffany: Yep.
Michael: Generally, based on my experience talking to them and working with a couple of them in the field, they enter the profession either through the academic realm or through the clinical realm as therapists, LSWs, LCSWs, and so on. You said it really clearly. What they do from a practical perspective is help guide parents, get to know them, and understand the child's specific challenges. Is it learning disabilities? Is it behavioral? Then they help match the parents and children with programs that they spend a lot of their time visiting. They are literally on campus, talking to the people, interviewing them, and that's what they do as a profession.
Tiffany: Yeah. Does it make it easier to trust them? I just can't even fathom as a parent… It's hard enough sending your five-year-old to kindergarten for the first time, wondering if they are going to be safe, okay, and treated nicely. To say, "I'm going to hand my child, who is really struggling and in pain, over to this program, to people I don't know and haven't met," brings up those same fears. Is he safe? Is he going to get his needs met? Are people going to treat him well? Does having a consultant help with that?
Michael: "Can they handle my son?"
Tiffany: Yeah, true. Can they handle him?
Michael: Yeah, which was the big question for me. It just came to me - I mentioned helplessness earlier, but it is really about giving up control.
Tiffany: Yeah, absolutely.
Michael: That's the challenge for parents. We want to control our child's environment and keep them safe. You're giving all that up and outsourcing your parenting. You really are, and that ain’t easy.
The Non-Linear Journey of Accepting Help
Tiffany: No, it's not easy. It is asking a team to step in and admitting, "I can't do this. I don't have the resources." It does not mean that you failed as a parent. You did the best you could as a parent.
Michael: I think that's part of the journey for a lot of parents - negotiating and coming to terms with some voice inside of them that says, "I failed." I know I did, and I thought I was a pretty damn good parent. I know his mom did, too. I can't speak for every parent, but I would challenge any parent who claims they don't feel it, because it's there if you take a look for it.
Tiffany: That's a good perspective, and I appreciate that. Let's look at what led up to needing to seek out residential treatment, which was going to be my next question.
Michael: Oh, boy. Okay. My son was a relatively normal kid, and then at around six or seven years old, he was becoming very hyper. At that time, understand that I had no experience with or understanding of ADHD, ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder), Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder, ASD, or any of that stuff. I've learned a lot since, so now I know all the acronyms.
It began to become really disruptive in our lives. If we were going to hang out with friends or go visit family, the whole planning and being there revolved entirely around him and his behavior. He was becoming more and more aggressive. Please understand, my son is a regular kid. The way his brain matured, or didn't, is really why his challenges manifested and became what they were.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: He's not a bad kid; he's not violent, but he was a very aggressive child. If there was something he wanted and he couldn't get it, he started fighting for it. I understand now that it was a coping mechanism for him to feel safe. In situations where we don't feel safe, and he couldn't articulate that, we move into fight, flight, fawn, or-
Tiffany: Freeze.
Michael: Freeze. Thank you. And my son's character was that of a fighter. Me? I'm a freeze or fawn person. I'm not a fighter. That's just not me, but that was him. It got really scary sometimes.
Around age five or six, we sought advice through his school, went to a psychiatrist, and tried medication - well, first we tried the naturopathic method through diet, because the diagnosis was ADHD. We tried cutting out gluten and adding fish oils, but there was no change. Taking a step back, his mom and I were both in the same camp of wanting to take the least invasive course of action to support him in just having a normal life, whatever that means.
Since the naturopathic method didn't work, we moved to medication. Honestly, we couldn't tell if it was doing anything because there was no change in his behavior. As he moved from six to seven and then eight years old - which would have been around 2016 - he started to refuse to go to school.
Tiffany: So you had school refusal.
Michael: Yeah. At school, he was just doing whatever he wanted.
Tiffany: Okay.
Michael: He began to become aggressive with teachers and refused to follow directions. It was very defiant behavior. In hindsight, I imagine it was because he was bored, couldn't tolerate it, and would become overwhelmed. Eventually, the school expelled him.
By that time, I had the educational consultant, and I had also reached out to the family mental health system in New Jersey. We tried outpatient treatment and an IOP (Intensive Outpatient Program). He even had a seven-day inpatient stay. The school actually had to call the cops on him one time.
Tiffany: Wow.
Michael: He got taken away in an ambulance. That first time happened when he was at an IOP. He was just so out of control. I can laugh now - it's not funny, but looking back on it, it took four men to carry him from the IOP to the ER, where they would calm him down. They had to give him a shot of Thorazine just to calm him down. That's the kind of thing we were dealing with. That's who he was. He's very willful, which is a blessing when it's used in the right way.
A Need for Higher Levels of Care
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: And the New Jersey Family Health System said, "There's a progression." In my heart, I just didn't know how we were gonna make it. I remember the moment we were talking to the psychiatrist who was overseeing his care at the intensive outpatient program in New Jersey. He sat down with us after observing our son for a couple of weeks, and he said, "Your son will not succeed at home. He needs to be out of the home."
That was a double-edged moment for me. It was the paradox of knowing it in my heart, but it was crushing to consider that my son couldn't be at home. I knew it. They placed him out of our home for the first time in May of 2018 into a program for kids. He was ten - no, not even; he was nine.
Tiffany: Oh my goodness. So young.
Michael: He was nine years old. They had to get an exception with the program to place him, but it was just not safe at home. It wasn't safe. There are a lot of details that go into what that means, but I'll leave it to your imagination. There were no knives or weapons or anything like that - I don't want anyone to get too creative in their mind about that.
Tiffany: That's fair.
Michael: But he would push, bite, hit, and kick to get his way, just as a way to feel safe in life.
Tiffany: Yeah, to regulate his nervous system and have some control.
Michael: Yeah, it was a coping mechanism.
Tiffany: Yeah, that makes sense.
Michael: So, he got placed out of our home, and he was in that first program from May of 2018 through September. Then they kicked him out. They couldn't handle him. He spent 45 days in a CCIS psych ward while the state looked for a higher level of care and placement for him.
Tiffany: Wow.
Michael: He was there for over a month, over Thanksgiving and almost to Christmas. He was then accepted and placed into a program which was a higher level of care. It was an RTC, a residential treatment program, in a hospital in Camden, New Jersey. There, the psychiatrist tweaked his medications a little bit. He was a really good psychiatrist.
I have to say, for regular psychiatrists, I don't know how they do what they do without watching a kid every day, month after month. Doing a 15-minute appointment and then just writing a script and sending it home with the parents - I'm sorry, you may have to cut this out, but I was like, "How the heck... you don't know my son." This psychiatrist had the privilege and the benefit of watching my son every day.
Tiffany: That's the benefit of an inpatient or residential treatment center - you have a whole team.
Michael: Yeah, a whole team watching this kid.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: And I knew that's what he needed. Nothing else had helped. Anyway, so they tweaked his medication, and he was there from around Thanksgiving of 2018 through October of 2019. While he was there, he made real progress. Restraints were dropping off.
Tiffany: Wow.
Michael: Incidents where he was-
Tiffany: Starting to see him stabilize.
Michael: Talking back. They got him stabilized. When you look at the executive function aspect of how we work, kids are maturing and growing in that, and everyone's brain develops differently. Some kids just take some time to develop, and my son is one of them. I know I was one, too.
Tiffany: You mentioned he was on the spectrum, with ASD.
Michael: Didn't know it at the time.
Tiffany: Didn't know at the time. That's very typical. Someone who has ADHD would also be considered neurodivergent, right?
Michael: Neurodivergent usually comes with ASD, ADHD, and ODD.
Tiffany: Yeah. Well-
Michael: Oppositional-
Tiffany: And it's typical that their maturity is slower for development, though not always.
Michael: Yeah, it's muted or stinted, but generally. They tend to be late bloomers. Kids are like popcorn - they all pop when they're meant to.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: I wanted him to pop sooner, but you know what? What I wanted at $2.50 will get me a Coke down at Maverick, so...
Tiffany: That is true.
Michael: It will. I've learned that lesson through my journey as a parent and doing my own healing. I know we'll get to that, too. So, he was at that program through 2019, got discharged, was doing really well, and came home. I took custody of him because I did better with him. I have a stronger authoritarian position with him.
Tiffany: So at this time, you and his mom were divorced.
Michael: We split up. No we...Yeah, it doesn't matter; we had split up.
Tiffany: Okay.
Michael: And so he was going to school out of district. Then the pandemic hit. He was already beginning to slightly regress. He had started to, and then we were at home, and he's living with me full time. Like many kids, one of his main coping mechanisms, which I completely understand, was gaming. He loved that. He lived in his room. School was online, and he kind of just came out for food. He started arguing for snacks - more and more snacks. Food is another coping mechanism for kids. It's one of the few things at their disposal that they can access that helps them feel better. It feels good to eat those foods, like trail mix or starchy stuff.
A Parental Breaking Point
Michael: And he started escalating again. We got through 2019, and then by the spring of 2020, I couldn't do it anymore. I remember sitting on my bed and he was coming in asking, demanding a snack, and I just wept in front of him. I said, "Kris, I can't do this anymore. I just can't do it." I was broken again. I couldn't do it on my own. These kids need - they need not just a village - they need villages.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: My son does. Even if his mom and I were together, it was just so overwhelming. So, I tapped back into the New Jersey system and had him placed at a program in New Jersey around the end of July. By September, the light went on for me regarding the effectiveness of what the programs in New Jersey could offer. We had visited all these programs before he went, so it wasn't just a matter of him randomly going somewhere. We had options.
But they had maxed out their ability to help my son. He needed something more. We were still working with the educational consultant, and she said two things that really stuck out. First, she asked, "Has anybody ever tested your son to see whether he's on the spectrum?" I told her no. Second, she said, "I think wilderness would be really good for him." So, I pulled him AMA, against medical advice, out of that program and drove him down to a wilderness program in the Carolinas. They also had a private neuropsychological team that they worked with. They had him tested, and sure enough, he was on the spectrum as well.
Tiffany: I just wanted to validate how hard this journey must have been, having those moments of realizing you couldn't do it on your own.
Michael: I can't describe it. Sure, I can use lots of words, descriptors, and characterizations, but my boss at the time, God bless him, witnessed me going through this. He said to me a number of times, "I don't know how you did this." And I don't know either. I just got up, put one foot in front of the other, and leveraged what I could as a coping mechanism. For me, work was one. I could hide in work for a while and forget about things until my phone rang and it said "Jersey City Police Department, Mr. McGibney, your son is..." whatever.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: And there were other coping strategies. Alcohol was one. Parents have access to that. I just took it one day at a time. I really did.
Tiffany: I think parents who are listening, there might be a few out there who feel like, "I've been there, I know what you're talking about." That is an indescribable, dark, and discouraging place to be.
Michael: It's scary. Yeah.
Tiffany: Really scary.
Michael: And even though you have an advisor, you're still the one making the choice and the decision for your son. And there's no map.
Tiffany: There is no map. So, the next step for you after wilderness was what?
Michael: Yeah, so he did really well at wilderness. It was like a total transformation. The therapist who was overseeing him, I called him the "Kristofer Whisperer." He really got my son and knew how to manage him. I now know in hindsight that he had a fair amount of experience dealing with kids on the spectrum, with ASD.
The Importance of Proper Evaluation
Tiffany: And that's important. There are two things I want to point out to parents listening. First, it's so important to make sure your kids get the proper evaluation and diagnosis so you have a bit of a roadmap for what your child needs. Second, it is about finding the right therapist, too, who truly gets your child.
Michael: Yeah, getting the right team together is essential. And it takes time sometimes. You're not gonna hit a home run every single time on the first try.
Tiffany: It does. Yeah.
Michael: We fired a few people along the way, and I don't mean that unkindly. It just wasn't a good match. But after he graduated from wilderness, we were just so proud of him. He thought he was coming home because all the other graduating kids were going home, and he was pissed that he wasn't. I was like, "Oh, man, this is not a good start for the next step."
We placed him in an RTC program not too far from that wilderness program. Two things happened. It wasn't a good match for him, and I can't say it was because of a lack in the program; it was more about his mindset. He went down there in defense mode and pissed off.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: And you know what? He did a really good job of expressing that down there, and they threw him out.
Tiffany: Yeah. Well-
Michael: Surprisingly. It was kind of shocking.
Tiffany: Really?
Michael: Yeah, it was. And in hindsight, I get it. The wilderness program drove back and picked him up because he had to be off the RTC campus within 12 hours.
Tiffany: Oh, wow.
Michael: The wilderness program said, "We got it." They picked him up and put him back in the wilderness setting so we could have a week or just some time to figure out what to do.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: Long story short, he was maturing. He told me, "Dad, I didn't want to be there. I want to be a regular kid." I said, "Okay, great. You come home, and I'll get you registered in the school district." But the district said, "I don't know if we want this kid because of his record."
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: He had destroyed property. He broke things and hurt people. I understood their position, so they said, "Okay, we're gonna observe him during summer school. He'll go to one class, and let's see how he does." I knew in my heart that because he wanted this so badly, he was going to manage himself better. It's when he doesn't get what he wants that he escalates real fast. Anyway...
Tiffany: No, I think it's important that kids have some buy-in, right? That's not always an option for parents in those high-crisis moments, but eventually, if you can get your child there, it makes such a big difference. If kids really want to, they can push a program's buttons and try to get themselves kicked out.
Michael: That's exactly what he did.
Tiffany: Yeah. Working at a program, we had a number of kids really try to do that. There are times as a program where we can help them feel safe and grounded and realize the environment is helpful, but there are those incidents where they know exactly what to do to make it so the program says, "We can no longer handle this."
Michael: Yeah. To your point around getting a kid's buy-in.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: Right? Well, up until that point, my son's buy-in was like, "I just wanna game and hide, and that's my way of coping with life because life is too painful for me." But by that point, he had matured. We talked about it, and he said, "Dad, I wanna be a regular kid. I just don't know what that feels like." I told him, "Okay, you got it. I will give you that. I'm a risk-taker, so I'm gonna give you the opportunity. You're gonna have to go to summer school, take a class, and show the school that you're the kind of kid they won't regret letting in."
And he did well. Then we went to a freshman orientation, and I was scared. I really was, for him. It was overwhelming for me just to be in this high school with 2,000 kids. He had never been in a school with more than 100 or 200 kids.
Tiffany: Especially for someone who is on the spectrum. That has to be so overwhelming.
Michael: Yeah. But I felt like it was my responsibility as his dad to give him the chance since he wanted to try.
Tiffany: Yeah, that makes sense.
Michael: Right. Well, long story short, he didn't actually make it through. After the third 911 call to the local police because he was destroying my home - that third one happened in November - he ended up punching and headbutting a cop.
Tiffany: No way.
Michael: He did, oh yeah. The last time it happened, the sergeant looked at me, and if I could have read his mind, he probably would have been thinking, "You're a screw-up parent, man. This kid's really..." He had no idea; he was just a cop. You know what I mean?
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: And he knew one of his officers just got punched by a kid. My son was getting big, and he's strong. Anyway, after you get taken away by the police, a mandatory seven-day psychiatric hold is required. That was his third one.
Tiffany: Okay.
Facing Hard Reality & First Steps to Discovery Ranch
Michael: This was in 2022. There I was getting in my car at 11:30 at night, driving 40 minutes up to the psychiatric hospital for kids. I remember it - it was a seminal moment, a watershed moment. For me, as a parent, I lost the fight. Not the love, but the fight. Looking at the road ahead, whatever road I could see, I saw there were two possible paths for this kid based on what was going on inside him and his history.
I was having to negotiate the possibility of a reality where I would be visiting my son for the near distant future through plexiglass in a correctional facility. I had even previously had a cop come over and talk to him. I did all the things I could as a parent. I turned over every rock and used every resource. It was at that point that it was like, "You know what? This is really up to him."
I went to visit him, and I said, "Kris, this is a point in your life where things are going to go in one of two directions. Either you're willing to surrender a little bit, start to take a real hard look at yourself, and ask for help and accept it, or you're gonna end up in a correctional facility. And I'll tell you what, if you think your life has been hard so far, you can't even begin to imagine life in the correction system, and I don't want that for you."
He put his head down, and he cried in the visiting room. I'll never forget it. He said, "You're right, Dad. I need to change." That was around Thanksgiving time of 2022. At that point, no program would take him - except for one. The first thing I did when I got home the next day was call Greg and ask, "Hey, Greg, will you guys still take him?" Greg McGary is the admissions guy for Discovery Ranch, and he didn't even hesitate. He said, "Yeah."
I was like, "No, wait, are you sure? Look, this is the third 911 call." He said, "No, we will take him." I asked, "Are you sure?" and he said, "Yes." I said, "Okay, but what if he does his usual MO? He's a smart kid. He'll go to a program, and a month into it, he's just gonna start behaving in a way to get himself kicked out." Greg replied, "We don't kick kids out. We take them down to the local psychiatric facility until they stabilize, and then they come back, and they know that when they come in."
I was like, "Ooh." That was something my son had never experienced. There was no way out.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: We had actually visited Discovery Ranch back in April of that year when he got kicked out of the other program, because I wanted him to come there. That was when he first met Chris Brown.
Tiffany: I love Chris Brown. He's one of the therapists there, and he's incredible.
Michael: We got on the campus and-
Tiffany: Was he his therapist?
Michael: Who, Chris? Oh, God, yeah. I just talked to him yesterday. I talk to him all the time. So, we had flown out there back in April because I just wanted my son to see it and feel it. Man, we were out there for 15 or 20 minutes, and he completely shut down. I thought, "This is it. We're done." We were talking to Zach, and I just said, "I'm sorry, he's done." He was totally checked out.
As we walked out to the parking lot, Chris Brown met us. I don't remember who exactly it was - maybe it was Matt Childs - but someone followed us out and said, "Why don't you just talk to Chris for a few minutes?" My son got in the car, and Chris Brown got in the car with him. I stood outside watching, and I was feeling really helpless because I knew my son was probably going to haul off and punch this guy. I could just feel it.
Tiffany: I don't mean to laugh, but-
Michael: No, in hindsight, it's just crazy.
Tiffany: Yeah, I'm just picturing it.
Michael: But this was really my reality. Chris eventually gave up before there were any fisticuffs, and I thanked him. I said, "I'm so glad you got out," because I was about to pull him out myself since I know when my son is going to blow. Back then, my son said, "No way I'm going here." So we went home, and that is where we pick up on getting him into the public high school and giving him that opportunity. But fast forward to December, and I finally dropped him off at Discovery Ranch.
Tiffany: Did he go willingly, or did you-
Michael: Yes. Oh, yeah. He had to, because we had that conversation in the psych ward.
Tiffany: That's right.
The Role of Acceptance in Healing
Michael: And he broke. There was enough of a break in him fighting for what he thinks he wants and what he thinks he can do, when he had demonstrated consistently that he couldn't and that he needed help.
Tiffany: That's that acceptance I think I was trying to get to and talk about previously, and it's so hard. Listeners, it's so hard to get your child there. There are a lot of times where-
Michael: Oh, you can't. I'm sorry, I don't mean to cut you off.
Tiffany: Oh, no. Please do.
Michael: I don't think you can force it. The child has to have some willingness. If they don't, then you're done.
Tiffany: That is a big key. As a parent, you talked about giving up control, and that's part of it. Any parent on this journey has to realize, "I don't get to control my kid's agency. I can support. I can guide. I can pressure. But ultimately, our kids have to make their own choices."
Michael: There is an arc of maturation and individuation that kids are gonna go through. When he was younger, he just didn't have it there. Parents have to... I had to make those decisions for him.
Tiffany: Absolutely.
Michael: But he was beginning to show enough windows of maturity where his desire and his agency were going to take him in a direction that I think was best for him as his guide. He was demonstrating that, and he did in that moment.
Tiffany: And that's so common, seeing that maturity. I worked at a program that takes really young kids up to 18, and we saw a need to take younger kids. But with those younger kids, you really had to have more external pressure and an external locus of control, right? They needed that. It took maturity and time for them to develop that internal locus of control to be like, "Oh, wait, I do want this," even though what I really want right now is to play video games, not listen to you, and give you the middle finger at times.
Michael: Yeah.
Tiffany: But they realize that's not what they need.
Michael: Yeah. By 2022, at that specific moment in time, he was 14.
Tiffany: Yeah. So you started at nine or ten, and it took a couple of-
Michael: Yeah, he was nine. He hadn't even turned ten yet.
Tiffany: Yeah, okay.
Michael: I think that, in his favor, he unfortunately had enough experience to realize that living at home was not a good long-term idea and that he needed help. That's where we got the buy-in with him. So, he arrived in December of 2022. Chris Brown was his therapist, and he was in the neurodivergent bunkhouse with Cindy, who was the house mom. God bless her. I don't know how these people do it. I have such reverence for the individuals who do this professionally day in and day out. I don't know how they do it.
Tiffany: It takes a special person, that's for sure.
Michael: It really does. They're wired differently. They really are. Chris Brown, Cindy, even the supervisors, and the frontline staff.
The psychiatrist made a suggestion, and I knew intuitively it was a good idea. My son, particularly within the structure of an RTC like Discovery Ranch, was still going to be himself. He was still going to get triggered and go from zero to 100. In my opinion, he needed something to give him a little bit of time between the initial reaction and executing the impulse to follow that reaction - to move into a fight. He needed just a moment to think because he was beginning to grow. He's a good kid with a big heart, and he is helpful, but when that trigger happens in his nervous system, he goes straight into fight or flight.
Tiffany: Goes into fight, flight, or freeze.
Michael: He goes into fight or flight, and he's a fighter. He needed something to just give him a minute or a couple of seconds, particularly in an environment like DR where kids are with staff all the time who understand them and know what is going on. They're not demeaning, shaming, or punitive; they give them emotional space. But my son just went too fast.
Tiffany: So when we started this episode, we did talk about how you originally didn't want to send your son out of state, out of New Jersey. You tried everything. You said there was no stone left unturned, and it really sounds like you guys just had no other options at that point than to choose Discovery Ranch, which was thousands of miles away. Is there anything else you'd add to that regarding why you chose to go out of state?
Michael: There is a point that I think is important.
Tiffany: Yes, please.
Michael: It's the financial piece. It is tied into the decision to send Kris out of state. We were really fortunate because, in New Jersey, those in-state programs were free. They are part of what the state offers.
Tiffany: Wow.
Michael: There is no expense.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: So that went into the decision-making process at the time. And then, when it became clear how that system worked as I got to see it, and the landscape of what they offered, I realized the type of help it provided was really more about managing kids. It really was. I don't mean to discredit it. I've actually helped them, too, because I've spoken to the director who oversees all the programs there.
Tiffany: Wow.
Michael: Somehow, I ended up helping them, just like I ended up here. So I'm not trying to put them down or demean them. They serve a purpose. But the purpose they serve, we had outgrown it.
Understanding Financial Hurdles in Treatment
Michael: The financial hurdle is extraordinary. Fortunately, for me, there are resources. Obviously, parents have savings and retirement, and in most states - certainly in New Jersey - the public education system has a fiduciary responsibility to educate a child. The definition of education there is very broad; it's not just academics, it's behavioral and psychological as well. The laws are such that school boards have a legal responsibility to support kids.
We consulted with an attorney, hired them, and went to the board of education in one city. They were very difficult, but fortunately, I moved. The board of education where I lived next, since I had primary custody, was a little more sympathetic. But it doesn't cover the whole thing.
Then there's insurance. One of the wonderful things about the Ascent team is Bre Engelbrecht and the insurance utilization team - they are rock stars. They are insanely good at what they do. Any parent who has even attempted to navigate and understand the insurance world, reimbursement, and all that stuff knows it is a game.
Tiffany: It's another language.
Michael: Exactly, and Bre and her team understand the game. Because I spent so much time dealing with insurance, I began to understand it, and we worked as a great team. They were really successful in leveraging the benefits that we had at the time. I also applaud the leadership and administrative staff from a clinical perspective because they understand how to position the treatment based on your benefits to maximize what you have available. They're better than any program I've seen. Insurance was involved with four or five programs that Kris went to, and you guys were the best. Parents have to know and understand that it's not cheap.
Tiffany: Which adds to the stress, I think.
Michael: So, that was a piece of it.
Tiffany: Yeah. That's an understatement, I know.
Michael: Oh, yeah. And I'm not trying to you know-
Tiffany: It is what it is.
Michael: -pooh-pooh you, but yeah, it is. It was a big piece of it. But we managed. At the end of the day, I remember Greg saying this, and it certainly is my philosophy in life: "If something is meant to happen, the money will show up somehow. It'll work out." And it did for my son. I exhausted a fair amount of my savings and retirement, too. But this was more important. This is my son's life.
Because of the choice I personally made - which may be tied to my background and the family system I came from regarding money - I was resigned to spend every penny, so long as the investment was productive and my son needed it. I didn't want to just throw things against the wall to "fix" him, because he wasn't broken. But if he was invested in making progress, I would invest every penny I had to give him the chance that a lot of kids don't get, and that I certainly didn't have growing up.
Tiffany: I just love that. Hearing the passion, love, and sacrifice you made as a parent, not only emotionally but even financially. It is so hard watching parents come and place their child at a residential treatment program because there is so much guilt and shame of, "I've failed, I'm giving up."
Michael: And, "What are the neighbors gonna say?"
Tiffany: Yeah, what are the neighbors or family going to say?
Michael: The social pressures...
Tiffany: Yeah. "Is my child ever going to love me? Do they think I'm just sending them away and giving up on them?" When, really, the children know what buttons to push on the days you drop them off. They know exactly what emotional bombs to throw and what heartstrings to tug on.
Michael: And how to play mom and dad against each other. They're masters at it.
Tiffany: Oh, they're good at it. I've watched so many. I had one kid hide under his dad's truck just so his dad couldn't leave.
Michael: My son tore the interior of my car when I dropped him off because he was not going to go. We had to peel him out of it, and some of the interior came right off the dashboard by the windscreen.
The Role of Suffering in Growth
Tiffany: Yeah. But the truth is, as a parent, when you have had to come to this crossroad, you realize this is your choice. It's either this road, or you may be visiting your child in prison.
Michael: Yeah.
Tiffany: Or they may not even be alive. We've had some parents come on here and say, "This program saved my kid's life."
Michael: Oh, it saved mine, too.
Tiffany: That is just pure love. That is deep, unconditional parental love and sacrifice that I don't think a child sees in the moment. They don't want to see it, and they may say everything against you. They might say, "You don't love me. How could you do this?" When the reality is you love them so much, and that's exactly why you do it.
Michael: See, okay, this is the bomb right here. You just touched it, particularly for me. Parents learning how their actions to protect their child are actually holding them back. For me - and I'll speak for my son's mom, too, because I see it from my perspective - we were both guilty of making decisions just to keep the peace, so we didn't have to feel our own pain as parents watching our child suffer. But the strength is in the suffering.
When the light bulb came on for me around that, it was my turning point. I was like, "Oh my God, I'm the problem."
Tiffany: Wow.
Michael: I was part of the problem. I would choose to do certain things because I didn't want to deal with the situation, or I didn't want my son to feel pain and suffer. I had to learn to look at myself in the mirror and recognize, "Dude, life is painful, and you're trying to protect him from suffering." He needs to suffer because that is the forge in which character is built, and how kids learn and grow. I have known this conceptually for myself, but I was blind to it as a parent. Blind.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: I know that for me. I was blind.
Tiffany: It's so hard as a parent. That is normal.
Michael: I was so blind, and now I see!
Tiffany: You're a normal parent, because it's hard to give up that dynamic and realize, "I don't want to feel pain, so I'm not gonna let you feel pain." The reality is, it's not a matter of if they will feel pain, it's when. And are you going to give them the tools to face it? Can you sit in that discomfort? Can you be selfless enough to say, "I'm gonna let you suffer, and I'll be here to support you, but I'm not gonna rescue you just because I'm uncomfortable"? Rescuing them looks selfless, but it's not.
Michael: Yeah, and...
Tiffany: That's called enabling.
Michael: Yes, precisely.
Tiffany: And for you to get there is huge.
Michael: Sometimes just sitting as a witness and tolerating your own agony as you watch your child suffer, and coming to the acceptance of that, is the definition of love from my perspective.
Tiffany: Oh, 100%.
Michael: I'm sure there's a gajillion people out there who would say, "That's not love." But I'm like, "Yes, it is."
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: Because you know what? Life is suffering. Everyone suffers. Show me the evidence of anyone who has ever gotten through their life and not suffered, ever. Show me the evidence, and I'll believe you. And you know what? There is none.
Tiffany: No.
Michael: We could go off in the direction of religion, and you know what? Even the story of Jesus, he got pissed off - all the stories show that.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: So how did I get here as a parent? And this is rhetorical; it's a throwaway question. What is it in me that brought me to this place where I wanted to avoid witnessing my son suffer, and protect him from it? In my opinion, that is actually cruelty.
Tiffany: I agree.
Michael: I didn't mean to be cruel, but it's not fair to the child. DR - not to wave the DR flag - but they have it down. Clint and the whole team, they get it. Strength is in the struggle, man. I can't remember the exact moment, but it was somewhere along the line in our family therapy sessions, and I know it had to be with DR because that's where the really good family sessions started. That light bulb came on for me, and I really started to see it.
Tiffany: I'm gonna have us pause right there because I can't wait to hear more about the journey you had with DR and what it was like. Just hearing your journey getting there, I think so many parents are going to resonate and think, "I understand where you're at." They may not be exactly in your shoes, but they can relate so much.
Michael: No, of course. You've heard many of the stories, so from your perspective, you have an appreciation for the story I'm telling.
Tiffany: Oh, absolutely.
Michael: Because you can connect it to a number of other parents you've spoken to.
Tiffany: Yeah. You are not alone. And to our listeners, you're not alone.
Michael: You're only alone until you don't really want to be alone anymore, I think. That's when I subscribe to the idea that a door opens. Someone's gonna show up. Something's gonna show up. Somebody's gonna say something, or you're gonna see something on TV. For me, I happened upon a PBS broadcast of Dr. Daniel Amen, who was talking about ADHD. I had no idea what it was at the time. That's what started it for me back in 2016. I was watching it and thought, "Holy sh–, that's my son."
Tiffany: Yeah.
Michael: I'm sorry. Anyway...
Tiffany: You're good, you're good.
Michael: You're trying to tie a bow on it, and I'm ripping the packaging off again.
Tiffany: No, no, you're fine. You want to keep going, and I'm loving this. We're gonna keep going right after this.
Courage to Ask for Help & Hope to Look Forward
Michael: That's where it happened.
Tiffany: Well-
Michael: That was a seminal moment for me.
Tiffany: I want to circle back to the very beginning of this episode. You said something that I didn't get a chance to touch on, and that's where I want to end. The message for our parents is that you were willing enough to ask for help, and that takes so much courage, skill, and vulnerability. To make that choice and realize, "I failed."
Michael: Humility.
Tiffany: "I don't have enough resources, I need help, and my son needs help." But it's not just about the son needing help. It's about realizing, "I have some growth to do, too." If we as parents can get there, then there's hope for our kids.
Michael: Yeah.
Tiffany: And that's a really hard place to reach.
Michael: Yeah. It's really tied into something we touched on when I first got here. Our culture is completely permeated by performance.
Tiffany: Yeah. Looking a certain way...
Michael: Looking a certain way, performing, and appearing a certain way. As parents, we don't always think about it in these terms, but we eventually get to the point where the pain in our lives becomes so overwhelming that we have to stand up to the programming and the unconscious processes.
You know as well as I do as a clinician that the percentage of what goes on inside of us that we're actually aware of is about 1%, and 99% of what drives who we are is unconscious. We could fall down a deep rabbit hole into the nervous system, fascia, neuroreceptors, and quantum biology - which I'm completely immersed in right now. But it's hard.
Tiffany: That's another podcast.
Michael: Yeah, you're right. It is. It is an act of humility, and it is not easy. To your point, that's exactly why I'm here.
Tiffany: Thank you so much for joining us for this episode. To our listeners, please stay tuned. In our next episode, we will continue down the path we just started on. We'll discuss what it was like once you entered treatment, what the process was, and what to expect.
Michael: Yeah.
Tiffany: What did your journey look like? What did your healing look like? Because it's not always linear.
Michael: Oh, no. No.
Tiffany: All right. So-
Michael: No, but you're here to keep us on track, so to speak.
Tiffany: Yeah. So stay tuned. Thank you again so much for joining us today.
Michael: Thank you. My pleasure. You bet.